Lets talk reflexology & RLD for World Reflexology Week 2023

thank you everyone for joining me for World reflexology week to have a just a let's talk reflexology and rld and anything else that you want to bring to the table that's reflexology related um so thank you for joining me um so I'd like to hand it over to you um some of you I know have trained in rld with me um some of you maybe not um I if there's anything you want to share or talk or ask I've got files open things I can share um maybe you just want to share some of the success stories that you've had you know maybe not got questions and you just want to um share and talk shop because there is a joy in that as we know being reflexologists so um who'd like to start who who's come here with any questions that they'd like to ask don't be shy don't be shy so I do have a question okay so when I was doing my case studies I did a couple of them and when I do the measurements before and then the measurements after do the measurements go up or down because sometimes I got up sometimes I got down right no you are doing it right the good thing about that is it shows that it's moving so for example just using the hand and arm as an example um we only measure the cylinder of the arm and if somebody has a lot of swelling in their hand we're not measuring that um then afterwards it follows that some of the swelling and as the fluid is moving in the body some of the higher sections can increase and that's the movement of it which is great because to me that shows it's working um so just troubleshooting Now with uh measuring for anybody who'd liked more information about that so when we measure what we need to do is go to the nearest millimeter as we're measuring around the circumference sometimes when people send me case studies or you know when we're having a go in in class if we're face to face they've got a tape measure and they're lined it up and it's rounded to a nice round number of centimeters and and what happens is that it doesn't change a whole centimeter sometimes it might but it generally doesn't you're more likely to just get a few millimeters off each one so the more accurate you can be with attention and reading the tape measure to the nearest millimeter will give you the best results possible but the fluctuations are great because it shows that you are moving the fluid around in the body um so um sometimes when people are doing their case studies they might have a client that doesn't have any swelling but they still decide to have a go at measuring and so if you're measuring limbs that don't have any lymphedema swelling there won't be much of a difference afterwards but there will be some difference it'll be it'll be negligible amount this could be due to the lymph moving or just slight inaccuracies and with measuring millimeters measuring to the nearest millimeter so if you're not sure when you're looking at your results what you can do is just see how the client feels and I never really want people to get caught up in the measuring and let that put you off using the technique because it can feel overwhelming um and there are advantages to it as you know you know you've heard me talking about the advantages and the training um because it's great for people for example if you've got somebody if you've got somebody who's got um swelling in there in their arm they've had it there for 10 years they've been told oh it's nothing that can be done about this and then we come along with rld and maybe their arm feels a bit lighter or maybe they're closer a little bit looser but in here because they've already been told nothing can be done about that it's very hard for them to believe that there's changes to them to not that they're doubting you but how can that really be happening when I've been told I have to learn to live with this to then see the measurements before and after so a nice way of engaging your clients with this process is to use your clipboard with your measurement sheet on the one I send out with the um course stuff the one you fill in and give it to the client on the clipboard with the pen show them how to fill it in because that way when you're reading it it makes it easier for you because it's an extra pair of hands you don't have to stop put the tape measure down pick up the pen you know do all that um it involves them in the process which people like they like to see it for themselves and it really does reinforce um God this really is working I'm not just imagining that it feels better those things so does that help yes it does thank you yeah good thank you Mandy does anybody else have any questions anybody else like to share any experiences go on Laura and and I am rubbish at the measuring I get clients come and then I get really crossed up myself that I haven't done before and after photographs or done measurements because three or four treatments on we're like well look at the difference so I'm my main thing for today was just to give me a bit of a right you need to get back into the habit of befores and afters not really just for the client but also for myself to sell to sell it yes because some people that's what they need to see before they'll hook in others will just come and try and then get hooked yeah and but I'm I'm shocked in some ways at how much I use your Technique Sally I started thinking oh I came on the course in 2019 oh I'm not really going to use it I'll do it as a bit of a bolt-on but nearly every treatment I use it for something and and I've got a few clients at the moment who are doing quite big weight loss programs okay but you can't shift things from the legs it's it doesn't look like lymphedema but they've definitely got more fluid on the legs and the girls are just saying they feel so much lighter and more energized and likes just feel different and so I'm doing it a lot for that as well as for my fibro clients yes wonderful so um for your fibro clients um and that's another condition that there's very little help and understanding for for the for the clients themselves um but there's so much inflammation going on the body that on in the body there that rld is just great for that so with those clients uh you won't be measuring the limbs obviously but are you using um maybe a visual analog scale or one of those other outcome measures I occasionally when I'm on it which isn't always and I I do use the micro sometimes with only pick one or two things to to measure against yeah yeah it's a great thing to do because you know when we feel better we forget how how bad we how bad we used to feel and if we haven't anchored that down at the beginning when you start seeing someone you know those sort of Baseline how bad are you sort of thing how bad are you feeling then at the end when they're feeling better they're not sure was it the reflexology was it feeling better anyway um you know you've got all that doubt and that is something that as a reflexologists we're all constantly up against you know when clients aren't sure well I don't know when I took my last painkillers you know that sort of thing it's getting in the habit of remembering to see how bad somebody or or how how much somebody's struggling with a condition or a symptom when they first come to you an example I often use for that is you know if somebody comes in they say oh my neck's really bad I I can't I couldn't drive and you before you start you say to them just show me how bad it is and they go oh no it's awful I can't move it round and that's all very well what you need to do at the end of the session is remember to say that oh by the way how's your neck now and they go oh my God that's amazing so they're sure it was the reflexology and you're sure it's the reflexology they don't go wake up the next morning and think oh actually I feel a bit better oh yeah perhaps it was going to go anyway it's like no it was the reflexology um so I I think it's really good to have it to get into but with the legs I'm um I mean I do tell people how to do that and the measurement sheets and all of that the the spreadsheet for calculating it all will do legs as well but um it's it's quite hard to measure legs unless you practice it a lot um what I tend to do with clients with them uh lymphedema in their lower limbs in their legs it's just to ask them how they feel before and the word that's already been used here not by me is lighter people always say they feel lighter and um that just tells me that the stuff is moving and then you've got that increased urination changes to the urine uh and as the as they lose more um Mobility improves so the improved Mobility all of that helps you know one helps to sustain the results of the others um yeah and and of course it's deeply red it's a deeply relaxing treatment um so there are benefits of that too for somebody who's got on a weight loss program you know you could support people emotionally with that as well so great it's really good to know that you're using it uh such a lot putting it to good use great thank you Kathy hi um a bit of a weird question stroke observation um okay I am studying MLD at the moment and um I've read your book Sally um but they haven't actually done your course yet but um but today for instance I was I was working on somebody with um autism spectrum disorder and uh she has lipedema okay and uh I did all the MLD techniques for that and then I I don't know whether it's Overkill but I like to put some of the rld practices in when I get down to the feet now again I'd love to know what you think you know should I just sort of stay in my leg in one lane um but anyway this particular client felt nauseous when I got to defeat and she said it was um sensory overload because I've had lovely music playing it was warm in the room and the soft touch and she just said it was just it was it was too too nice almost you know so um so again what is the question or not an option no no it's great it's discussion that's what this is all about discussion um okay so are you familiar with Karen Windsor and her work um on face on Instagram she's at Kaz talks she's done rld training with me she's somebody who uh does a lot of work around lipodyma and primary lymphedema she also has fibromyalgia so she's absolutely changed she's a reflexologist and I'm not saying anything here that um isn't on her you know social media and then public um she is doing some incredible work with rld um that's what what was a catalyst in the changes she's made but she supports a lot of people with lipodyma too um she does all sorts on Instagram but if you look back at some of her older posts you'll see um but I mean I'm not MLD trained which is how I ended up developing rld because there wasn't an alternative and you know what it's like you've got a client in front of you and all you want to do is help them to the best of your ability see okay I'm a reflexologist I I can do this um and uh so she was maybe having a double dose if you're I'm guessing where you're doing sort of subclavian veins sister and a Kylie reflexes yeah so when um somebody has lipodyma or or in my experience now with rld lipoedema or primary lymphedema or secondary lymphedema in the lower limbs you know what we're doing is we're draining it upwards aren't we you know it the whole length thing just goes in one direction from where it enters to where it returns to the drainage point up here and I think the nausea is when uh it's moving from the lower limbs quicker than it can travel up the body and I think that's what causes the nausea because you don't often get people feeling nauseous when it's uh swelling in the upper limbs so the arms and things so what I would do in that case and I had a chat with Karen about this we did a podcast thing one of those lockdown things that you did and she was talking about her lipedema stuff um is to then focus on those drainage points so that it's got somewhere to go rather than uh trying to move uh try you know backing up and that well that sort of crazy queasiness um that you can get when it's traveling up because it has to go up the body doesn't it and interestingly I've been working on somebody lately who's had a really awful knee injury um so much so she couldn't straighten her knee and it's very swollen I did put some pictures on Instagram actually and she wouldn't know what I'm doing with rld but she was feeling trickling going up her leg and we got a reduction in swelling just I took photographs and measure we've got a reduction in swelling she was feeling trickling going up her legs and she because there's a lot of swelling there she actually felt this nausea which I thought was quite interesting considering that again we're trying to drain swelling from a lower limb so does that help very much so yeah no that makes a heck of a lot of sense yeah and the annoying thing is I sat her up a little bit which just sends everything back down again but she needed to be all right well I mean if she's had a full MLD session um then then that that is quite a full-on treatment isn't it but it is I mean the only time I'm saying to people only do rld as rld is when they're doing a case study because it does work out it works really well as a standalone treatment but ultimately as therapists we do these extra courses to um you know give us a bigger toolbox so we can help more people we've got more techniques for different presenting conditions and clients and all of those things so um no I'm not precious about stuff like that you know I think um use what you've got because that's what you want to do is you want to help the person um who's come to see you and you you just do your best to do that which is great so I'm assuming Cassie you're a reflexologist as well are you yeah yeah yeah absolutely yeah right and it's quite time to throw the whole toolbox at them sometimes though you know I get it and I by the way confident book um it is unfortownable it's such a it's such a good read it's almost like a page Turner you know it makes it makes it very accessible and you know if you compare that to the MLD training which is so dry and you know um so so compliments on that to make it more open to people it's great thank you very much um it took me seven years to write that book on and off stop start stop imposter syndrome stop start who are you to write a book you know that little and I was only ever going to write one book but I I really felt this work work needed to be uh written it needed to be put in print um and so it's there um and if I was only gonna ever write one book it was going to be the best it could possibly be so thank you for that I appreciate your feedback thank you um are you doing Voda training MLD uh Kathy yeah yeah yeah that's the most extensive isn't it yeah yeah great um okay does anybody else have anything you'd like to say go on any questions at all anything you want to share um hi there everybody hi Sarah um very newly graduated level five diploma from Jubilee college so I'm really excited and thank you for hosting this Sally it's um you're you're number one on my list of next uh CPD courses to do and I just really appreciate sort of advice about uh whether you sort of do something in between now before I come on to your course or just uh any any other experiences from you all the group that just to plan my sort of CPD Journey um onwards would be really helpful thank you and and I'm really passionate about it it's lovely to hear you talk to you because just the suddenly feeling that movement happening we've done some of the palliative work obviously on level five but it you can really feel the power of it moving and that it's almost the relief from clients when something changes in them it's really it's amazing so yeah really excited I mean re the excitement you're feeling now that I personally I first started this I went to first went to college in 2004 and I'm just excited now so what's then so it doesn't it kind of doesn't go away you know that's one of the just an amazing thing about reflexology because you just the only thing you end up or I've always thought oh yeah I'd started learning it earlier in my life um I know it's a cliche but I do believe that whole you know the more I learn the less I know so one thing um I would say is consolidate the learning that you've got you know I mean when I first qualified excuse me um I I'd done a a full-time course for a year that was massage and aromatherapy as well so I already had three things to offer and I was thinking oh well the more things I have to offer the bigger menu I have if you like the more clients I'll get that wasn't the case but I went on and did Indian head and Reiki and crystals and poker ear candles and EFT and you know all those sorts of things that um you can bolt on some some you can only bolt on to a massage qualification as well but actually I still come back to reflexology which was my passion now it might feel different for you because you've qualified in reflexology and I do get some people who've only just qualified or some people are coming towards the end of their course and they I mean some people have trained in reflexology because they want to learn rld and had a few MLD therapists like that um so it's diff it's difficult to say it depends who you're working with what your cohort is whether you're hoping to work in Cancer Care whether you're working with people with a lot of autoimmune or stress or pregnancy or any of those sort of things it depends really if you have an idea of where you want to go with this do you have an idea or you do you just want to work on lots of feet well of course yeah yeah definitely um as we were amazing yeah I mean it's just incredible isn't it and but I've been really interested in I've got a couple of uh fibro algae clients and really noticing how how that the sort of inflammation and fluid build up can happen there um and I'm really interested in sort of musculoskeleto and also palliative and Cancer Care so it really felt like right in the spot for for those particular sort of focus in that area for me particularly yes but that's really helpful I think something getting old yeah I'm gonna do everything yeah yeah um I mean uh this is going to sound like a sales pitch now which I don't mean at all but rld started by uh in Cancer Care there was no MLD available for people but I understood it so okay I'm gonna apply the principle to that to the feet see what happens um so it has for a long time just been about that whole lymphedema in particular breast cancer related lymphedema but the more I've done it and the more it's grown organically and um what we're finding is that people with fibromyalgia there's a lot of inflammation going in the body because it isn't just about swelling so where there's inflammation um then rld will help with that so pain musculosis skeletal stuff people who are run down and I've had some fantastic case studies from people who have um long covered amazing case studies um because many of the symptoms or the way that Long Cove has been described really is similar to me and chronic fatigue you know that fatigue and lack of energy and and all of those sort of things um and rld was really helping people with those conditions so therefore by using it with these kind of long covered type conditions um people are also seeing amazing results um particularly earlier on you know when there was more of it around and there's nothing really for people with this um and they're they're learning more and more about it all the time now but certainly that cohort of people who are very run down very fatigued in pain um you know immune very sluggish all of that rld is just fantastic for those clients and it can be used just as a short Standalone treatment or you can fully integrate it into what you're doing and you know as Laura was saying um it becomes a way of practicing it sort of changes how you think about working that system if you're doing a general reflexology you would still do all the systems um so I hope that helps yeah that's really helpful thank you you're welcome Laura you just need to unmute sorry Sarah I don't know it's helpful but I actually qualified with Jubilee College 2019 in the September and then did Sally's course in the December and so like you I was quite excited about it and actually it was it was definitely for me the right one to do so I don't know whether that helps or or not but yes can I ask if any if you've had any um experience with um mnd um I haven't oh sorry you don't know anyone actually does any does anyone here here has had any experience of mnd motor neurons disease um I mean that's a pretty awful condition isn't it I'm working with somebody at the moment and who's um I'm actually going visiting in a home and they they found me and just I've just connected with this lady and I just wondered if anybody or if anybody knows anybody who's had experience of it because obviously it's quite a challenging treatment to give when the speech is starting to go anyway and so if anybody knows of anybody or anything I'd love to speak to them um do you know what would be very interesting to document what you're doing um are you just doing a general I'm rubbish that they're the documentary um if you start documenting something even if it's just one case and then you maybe have another case and you start to see similarities so for example when I did that sequence this person responded in that way and then maybe do that next time or maybe they present with something else the next time and you change it again um and you can start to notice a pattern that's how that's how we learn that's how from the clients that we have um but if I was going to see somebody with mnd I'd see what they would most like help with on that day there and then I mean in a moment I'm actually using rld and just one round because I obviously it's a lot shorter the treatment that she can have and she has got swelling on her ankle and knee okay that's what I've been doing but I just wondered if anybody else has got any experience of it um so is the swelling because she's I'm guessing she's no longer mobile she is still mobile and she's um she's she's doing amazingly well it's more um a throw at the moment and a voice so she could have dialogue when I first started but now um a speech she has to talk through the computer and but what I've noticed is when I'm doing the rld it produces more of the obviously mucus in the upper lymph and I said to is that a bad thing for you she said no no it helps clear it oh well um on step three in rld you know when you when you're working at the neck yeah I'm working across the back I think that that is a that's the bit where your clients then say to you or you look up and you see them and they're like gulping um so it's uh stimulating that sort of saliva as well as being deeply relaxing that's the bit I think that gets the old Vegas nerve going that yeah um so you've got you know Vegas nerve 80 of that whole parasympathetic rest and digest motor nerve fiber autonomic nerve fiber and sensory nerve fiber and um that's where you see you know you that's what I mean you know you do something often enough you learn to just glance up notice your client and notice their gulping but I'm so pleased it's helping her as it was one of those where I thought oh I must stimulating and she can't get rid of it yeah but she said no but she's obviously just very conscious that she's got to get rid of it yes yeah I'm so glad it's helping her and do you notice a difference in her voice when you're at that stage yeah and I'm also she's um she's she's I'm awful she's getting a bit lazy and I've told her and I'm trying to be as normal as possible with her because it's very easy for me to start assuming what she's saying and I just said no you need to say it yourself and then speech therapist just said she's got to obviously communicate um but yeah so yeah you can hear it's a little bit clearer what she's trying to say great oh that's amazing see that's the sort of thing I mean about documenting yes so just that's really useful that and maybe if you had a few cases like that um then you uh approach an mnd support group um and you know offer to maybe talk to them or do some tasters I think with these you know life limiting conditions like that anything that can be done to make people's lives more comfortable I think um you know remember complementary Therapies were all people used to have weren't they they didn't have all this sort of drugs and stuff so yeah I think it's all all good the whole world needs more reflexology now more than ever I think after the pandemic um so thank you thank you Sarah and I wish you all the best and uh you know or I've loved my reflexology Journey honestly absolutely loved it um does anybody else have anything you'd like to say Kathy have you unmuted there yeah I don't want to be dominate the conversation just wanted to very quickly say um you're talking about the whole world needs and whatever my husband was in hospital um the last few weeks and he had a stem cell transplant he's got multiple myeloma you know cancer bone marrow and um he's done he's been the recipient of a lot of my courses over the years and you know normally just falls asleep and just doesn't take any notice of what I'm doing but last week he was he was an enormous amount of pain he got a hospital invite uh acquired infection as well as the stem cell transplant and um he has peripheral neuropathy as well and um so I was just looking at him going I must be able to do something instead of just you know wiping surfaces and things like that you know and I started with the reflexology I thought I'd just do a very small I'm saying I was a little bit sort of cautious of his feet because they really with some peripheral neuropathy you really get the horrific burning sensation and you know it's just incredibly painful and um so I did a mixture of reflexology and what I've learned from your book as well and um he just suddenly just sighed and I looked up at him and he was like is this what you do it's just been doing this for years and he's never noticed and he said this is amazing and it's incredible because you get a lot of people coming into your clinics and you know paying and saying oh yeah that's great thank you very much but somebody who who's never really appreciated they're not paying for it and they're like hang on a minute this is great it was really a lovely moment you know and he felt incredible afterwards had a full night's sleep which she hadn't had for a month so you know it was so again again just sharing that was yeah it's nice you know yeah that's so good yeah often our loved ones and this happens sometimes when I'm doing online training and people go uh after the first day go and work on work on someone usually a loved one um before we regroup for the next day and so often people say well my husband lets me work on him or or my son or daughter let me work on them it's like they're doing us a favor um and yet I think they love it really but they just don't they are doing it as a favor very often to um yeah yeah oh gosh I'm I'm delighted that you're able to help um so where's the peripheral neuropathy due to uh chemotherapy did that cause yeah yeah yeah oh that's awful it's uh it's a horrid condition isn't it it stays with you as well like you know I don't think the other the nerves ever fully kind of recover you know once once you've had that level of chemo as well but um but now he's noticed that it makes a difference yeah great yeah um so do you know Peter mccarriff um from the Christie Hospital in Manchester Peter um Peter is I think a legend he's he's just uh he's done so much for reflexology and complementary Therapies in Cancer Care um he's been doing some work around peripheral neuropathy um and reflexology and also Carol Samuel does work with pain and cancer survivors um she's got a protocol that she uses for that and the other technique that in my experience works really well with that is um just some of the very light linking you know the Precision linking work that's great when because it's quite hard sometimes people touching their feet not everybody it doesn't feel nice does it always um you know when there's sort of sensory disruption like that um yeah yeah great I'm so pleased you're able to um help him with that and does he let you do hand reflexology on him or has he got peripheral neuropathy in his hands as well um no um I've never really got it wrong with hands to be honest I do face um okay it's dead but uh so I sometimes do that with him but he's quite happy for me to work on his feet but I know what else that other people wouldn't be so yeah yeah and that's again one of those things isn't it take everybody as you find them really and do what you can for that individual um on the day so thank you thank you for sharing hi Bev you've unmute do you have anything you'd like to say or ask or no I really just joined you sorry so uh it's okay yeah I just thought I'd I would need to catch up nice thank you for coming do you have anything you'd like to share from your experiences or any questions or anything else reflexology related that you'd like to talk about I I get um a pre-refer of football people that um have liposuction and things like that you know or um they're a bit weary of rld because um or um they're not quite sure because it's not like a massage is there and I'm just wondering how I can try and sell that a bit better uh it's very hard to promise people anything we're not allowed to do that obviously yeah um but my way would be to say well try it just try it see how you feel um yeah because there is a shortage of MLD practitioners so people are having different procedures done and then um find that they can't get the MLD um that they need after that yeah rld in that situation obviously I'm biased but um people don't have to get undressed yes and no risk of infection there because um you're not touching the you're not working anywhere near the area where they've had the work done yeah just shoes and socks off so um does that help yeah yeah you know I do try and explain what it is and it's just a different technique to try and get the same effect really yeah but uh you know I I think if they've been shown away in hospital they're expecting that type of you know like massage type thing opposed to the reflexology so I went through a phase of having inquiries I had a gentleman who'd had for cosmetic reasons he's had a liposuction on his back and uh you know front and back of his abdomen to just um you know for cosmetic reasons um I've had people who've had a tummy tuck and a boob lift um and seen some great results and I'm quite honest with them about it I don't promise them anything I explain that this is a reflexology technique that's based on the principles of MLD and you know results are very promising and why don't you try it that's how I do it um but I've got something I'm quite happy to share if if that's okay with everyone I don't know if any of you've maybe seen this already so back it Christmas time last year my son had um uh quadruple jaw surgery to he it was broken in four places and he had four wisdom teeth removed because he had a crossbite that way and an underbite so only two of his teeth met one top and one bottom and he was beginning to get musculoskeletal problems so this is a big operation it was the best part of four hours operation and his face was very swollen afterwards and then it can take up to 12 months for the all the nerve stuff to come back and uh uh nil nil no solids at all well he was kind of eating through a straw for a few days and but they had originally recommended that he has some MLD to help with the swelling well there's no one around here that's doing this and he knows about my work because he's he's been very supportive with um uh the stuff that I'm doing and so we decided we were going to do rld every day so from from 24 hours after surgery when he came out of hospital I did his feet every day sticking to the rld I didn't do arms and legs I left that part off and so did them the main sequence and then um just uh concentrated on the upper and the head and neck trying to drain um and I'm going to show you a picture if you'd like to see it of what happened so literally over the uh 14 15 days it was on and on a couple of days I did it twice because he was in so much pain but he could feel draining um he there was some swelling under here too under the chin and from you know when your Viewpoint of the feet if there are not a fooma you you're kind of looking up at that bit and I you know the creases in your neck as well I could actually see it going up um I mean I made him do like a selfie and uh before and after so he could see as well and he was documenting um what he'd gone through anyway let me get the pictures a sec I'm gonna get the file okay I did have some slides ready um okay right uh I'll just show now so um The Specialist and the orthodontist had told him that the swelling would take six to eight weeks before it started to to go you know and that would be a good result if it went that quickly um and for for people who have this particular type of Jaws or any of these kind of jewelry alignment surgeries for medical reasons not cosmetic reasons there are these big forums Facebook forums and things and people share how they had a pill crusher and things so they could take their painkillers and some people document their Journey with videos and video diaries and and things that have worked things that haven't so he was prepared for all this and he was also prepared for the swelling to last that long so just gonna share this with you Zach so this is just one picture here um you could this was before and after one treatment and this was about oh there we are day five so you can see under here there was swelling and then under here it's gone up a little bit um this is just during the treatment and then this one day 15 compared to day five so day five and day 15. day 15 he went for his checkup post-op checkup with the special the guy who'd done the surgery and he said he'd never seen anything like it before he'd never seen swelling disappear within two weeks so that's what I mean about documenting these things don't be afraid to try that lymph is everywhere in our bodies um it's also part of our immune system as well so if you're working that you're you're kind of affecting everything but what was also interesting was how sore his reflexes were so soon after the surgery and initially he couldn't even bear to have the lafuma reclined you know I had to prop he was in it I had to prop his feet up it was very very it was I mean it was awful as a mother to watch it not very nice either but it was also wonderful to be able to help him with that just by sticking to rld watching it drain while I was doing it and then over the two week period the reflexes got easier he was more able to recline when his recovery has been off the scale fantastic absolutely fantastic um so what he's doing is putting some stuff some information together like little case study to share in the jaw surgery forums and that you know researchers proving what we do is a slow and expensive business and there's no money for Research into reflexology reflexology they're just you know there's no nobody has you know pots of money for that so the little bit that we've done is amazing and the money we've had for that has been fantastic but patient voice and the impact of what this does for our clients when they then go back to their Medical Teams that's that's worth as much as published research if more people keep doing it in the same way um people who are doing a lot of rld um I can think of uh somebody near Manchester she's doing so much of it she's making such a big difference to the clients who would then go for their appointments at the lymphedema Clinic the lymphedema Clinic I've seen so many amazing results they're actually referring people to her now and they'd run her up to say I hope we're not sending too many people your way you know we don't want to overwhelm you because that's the patient voice there their patience going into the clinics and saying look I've had this this has happened and it's very difficult for people to um I think it's a shame we can't be part of the whole NHS thing because there is a short shortage of um MLD therapists and um you know it would leave the mlds therapists to to deal with a really complex cases if reflexology was used to help with the milder cases and the more manageable cases similarly um I once had a referral from the local lymphedema Clinic um because obviously they're seeing people that I see so they're aware of the work but it wasn't a direct referral it was another nurse who was a friend of hers who worked in a different department who'd had breast cancer and had lymphedema and the lymphedema therapist has said oh there's somebody more just you know go up and see her and uh see if you know that can help so that was a kind of indirect referral because she was her friend because professionally she at the time wasn't bit allowed to be referring patients out to something that you know isn't NHS approved but I do know that the nice guidelines for complementary Therapies in Cancer Care are currently being um they're under review as Peter mccarth is one of the reviewers of this and I've been asked to submit some comments about it so you know it's all good and it's all going in the right direction but all the reflexologists out there who are using the techniques and making inroads that is of just as much value to all of us as a profession as the small piece of research and the data collection and all of that um so you know it's it's good for the clients it's good for us and maybe we can get some momentum and start doing some um work with people who are having jaw surgery you know because in these forums people are looking for things that have helped that have helped and even now I mean he he knows about two months ago maybe had the last brace removed because he's had braces before it's quite a long roll process um but when he went to have that moved um the orthodontist said the actual healing from all the surgery inside his mouth she just couldn't see it it had healed so quickly so that goes back to that sort of cosmetic surgery the idea of you know people who are having MLD uh and then you know for to help people to heal to help with recovery after surgery so I hope that is useful um thank you Bev yeah just challenge people to well you know if you don't find somebody to do MLD please come and try um yeah so testimonials are good documenting what we're doing and I'm always going on about this but that's how we build up um our own evidence to to call upon so you know you get a few little cases similar and then you can go and put you know look at that together and what's the similarity here what's going on here so um I hope that helps everybody anyway um okay so Mandy Mandy hi Mandy bye bye I'll lower my hand hey um the thing that I haven't um finished writing up for you but my case study is done I wanted to share a couple of things that um she said to me so one her friend noticed that she finally had ankles and she hadn't had ankles in many many years because she'd had a car accident and she could never figure out to get the swelling down in her ankles and legs yeah so that was one positive thing that came from it and then she went to see um her chiropractor and she was telling the chiropractor about um the rld his comment to it was well if your legs are up they are going to go down in swelling that's okay that's okay um yeah yeah that's the sort of thing that um the surgery near me would say you know yeah I'm you know what that's just okay um but if you were seeing maybe six of his patients say came to you and all had a similar thing and then you know you start to get this and what did she say to that he says well maybe but she says over the years I've had my legs up and never had um to this point and this was after her third treatment I did six on her yeah and I've talked to her since and she says that the swellings come back okay but it's just it's just finding the time for her so how many years has she had that had she had that swelling before she came to you five five years okay so five years of us problem with swelling she gets three sessions of rld and she gets her ankles back yep you know um I mean I hear this all the time I hear these things all the time and it is actually what keeps me going it's what keeps the um drive and excitement and um yeah it just keeps me going stuff like that particularly when something good happens to someone for whom they've been told no you just have to learn to live without you know I've seen women who've had lymphedema in their arm for maybe 30 years and then a few sessions of rld and it starts to go and you probably had this with her ankle as well I'm not sure you'd have noticed it in the same way you know how they lose the most during the first treatment did you get back with the legs as well or not do you remember she's the one that I was talking about that um when I did her treatment she seemed to go uh down until I got to the thigh okay like just above the knee yeah and that always seemed to go up yeah but then when she came back the following week it was all down yeah okay so that is the where it's increased higher up the leg that's the fluid moving that's the fluctuation and the moving so instead of doubting you're measuring or that you're maybe doing something wrong you know I I don't like the idea of right and wrong with reflexology only right left um so just to kind of be confident and do it and she's feeling stuff moving her ankles going down that fluid has to go somewhere and it has to travel up the body and and it's clearly doing that with you seeing increase I would see that as a positive result yeah exactly we are well done well done well I hope she comes back soon and see that's the other thing that helps always with this swelling whatever the cause is as stuff as the swelling goes down people's self-confidence starts to improve and you know that is the positive ripple effect of this work irrespective of that all the people a little help who don't have swelling you know the autoimmune inflammatory stuff um so I lost my thread there oh yes when when people she's close to her friends start to say oh look I can see your ankles so so the client is straight away oh yeah I'm not imagining this that it feels better you know it really does make a difference so thank you for sharing thank you just got um uh sorry just thank you how have others Incorporated okay um Julia I think is that might be a typo where it says for um however is incorporated uh I guess it's rld with reflexology or vice versa wherever I try the treatment ends up taking too long um I mean that's just down to experience I think I um uh yeah I I personally always start my treatments with a quick whip around the lymphatic system because with so many years experience now I can pick up a lot from that and then coupled with consultation then I really decide how I'm going to um you know adapt my treatment depending on what the aim and the outcome you know aim or required aim is um I thought yeah auto correct I think autocorrect ought to be called Auto incorrect because it does that more often than it corrects um so yeah uh I I would just say you know do it in your own way basically so if you're doing a general reflexology treatment for somebody who's just he's got nothing wrong with them they're just having a general treatment for well-being I'm guessing you'd work all the systems just uh work the lymphatic system in the way that you learn with um rld that's what I would say to that so I hope that helps does anybody else have any question is everybody okay with it being recorded uh shared provide yeah is everybody okay with that um does anybody have anything else that you'd like to say or ask or mention um before we finish the Wonder remember there's no such thing as a silly question only one not asked um I I'm I'm always a potential when they say how often should I come you know I I'm just you know I I say regularly but I don't want to push them to come um sort of too often but what would be the best gap between each treatment would you say okay so again that depends entirely on the client and you know whether they can spare the time um you also don't want to put them on a financial burden and I don't these days I only see anybody once a month yeah I'd say once a month and then you know um and then if they feel they need to come back so we'll then come back but I just say to do it regularly and once a month would be good so I just wanted to check I was saying the right thing well like you I never liked to put people under pressure to oh you must come every week you know I I I've never ever done that I practice but there have been times when I've seen people weekly availability appointment availability would be what stops me doing that now but if somebody did want a weekly treatment excuse me I would probably just refer them to somebody else locally excuse me excuse me sorry oh thank you that's okay you're welcome okay well I'm gonna wish you all um a Wonderful World reflexology week and thank you very much for joining me and all the best in your reflexology careers because it's just the best thing so thank you everyone bye for now thank you you're welcome bye