LIVE STREAM with Barbara Scott!

go live. Okay. Hello. Hello everyone. I'm thinking you can hear us. I'm just double checking. Yep. Okay. Well, welcome welcome everyone to our second Facebook live stream for 2026 where we've been going through talking to the speakers who will be coming to Winnipeg, Manitoba this May for the Reflexology Associations of Canada's 50th anniversary conference. Yay. I'm so excited today to be speaking with the amazing, the talented um Barbara Scott. Uh today, for those of you watching us live on Facebook, please feel free to put your comments in the chat. We'll try and get to questions kind of at the end. If you're watching this later on YouTube, also feel free to add, you know, comments and questions. We'll try to go back to the YouTube um video and answer questions as they come. Uh we'll give more information about some of the training later, but all the information about the conference can be found on reflexologyconference.com. And yeah, that's all me for housekeeping. So without further ado, love to introduce Barbara Scott. Um I can't believe it, Barbara. The first time we did this live stream was six years ago when you were we were you were planning to come to Canada for our 2020 conference and then the world shut down. >> That's amazing. I can't believe that. >> Don't know where six years went. But >> for those of you who do not know Barbara, she is the chair of the association of reproductive reflexologists. Um she's the founder of Sarah natural fertility and she has authored a book called reflexology for for fertility. So she is quite the reflexology expert as it comes to fertility, reproductive health, um conceiving, etc. So we're going to get into all of those topics. So please feel free again ask your questions in the chat. But I wanted to start I guess there Barbara cuz you've really carved uh out a niche as one of the leading voices in um using ref re reflexology for um reproductive health and and conceiving. So my first question to you is what drew you to that topic like how did you start you know researching getting into it like why how did you get into reproductive reflexology? Um, firstly, thank you for having me and I'm so excited to be coming to Canada and to be to be with you. Um, and and I know that you've got the most amazing venue. I think is it the Museum for Human Rights? >> It is. So, we're going to special place. >> Beautiful building. >> Yeah. So, thank you. Thank you. So, I have been there. >> Um, I can't remember when it was. I have a feeling it was 2018. quite a long while ago, but I'm so excited to be coming back and to be given the opportunity to speak at the conference. So, thank you for inviting me. Um, so how did I come to be doing this? It found me. I did not find it. >> Okay. >> So, um, I did my training uh 30 plus years ago. I've been involved um with reflexology since my youngest son was a baby and he's now 37. So I've been involved in reflexology for a very long time. But I went and did my training with um uh Nicola Ward of the Bailey School. So which was set up by Doring Bailey in the UK. And um we just did diplomas then. We didn't have CPD courses. We just did your diploma and off you went. Um and my very first client was someone with repeat miscarriage and fertility difficulties. Um what was happening for her was that she was getting pregnant. Um it was sometimes taking her quite some while to get pregnant and then she kept early miscarrying. And of course at the time there there was nothing there in reflexology terms that was going to help me um to help her. All I knew about was just kind of literally balancing the endocrine system. We no other concept of really um what to do for her and with her. So um really it found me and and and what it did to start with was it probably led me on a journey of about 15 years where I realized I was on my own. um there were no additional support that where I was going to gain information. So I realized I had to do my own research. And the fantastic thing about these groups of of clients, patients, participants, whatever you want to call them, um is that they go and have lots of testing. So the first thing I did was I was able to determine that actually what I thought I could feel in the reflex points and to start with it was just women um was being confirmed by medical tests. So you might think, "Actually, I think there's a dominant follicle in that right ovary." And then they would go and have a scan to check what was happening in their cycle, and they'd say, "Oh, the the right ovary's got a dominant follicle." And you think, "Oh, okay, that's really interesting. So that's confirming that." And then you you you you know you might have um you might then think well I'm feeling I'm palpating these reflex points and I I think they the I'm going to talk about ovaries to start with cuz it's the easiest place to start. Um but that feels to me is everything is very quiet. I'm sure there should be activity and there's not very much happening. And then they might go and have some blood tests and those blood tests confirm that maybe they have low ovarian reserve or they have another underlying reproductive health condition which is impacting upon their ability to ovulate and that's why you're not feeling what you should feel you should be feeling in in the ovary reflex points. So at that point I was completely gripped because because what I discovered was actually we could use science and and and therefore medicine to determine whether what we was feeling was the right thing in in the reflex points. So I then found it really interesting. And then the next thing I did was I started to borrow some ideas from acupuncturists because acupuncture reflexology similar modalities they work in a very similar way and I thought well if they are able to manipulate energy why can't we do that we must be able to do something very similar so I kind of borrowed some techniques and applied them to reflexology and and tried them on my clients my patients and um and then um found that actually was creating change and not only was it creating change but we could evidence base that change. So we could either evidence base it by seeing changes in basal body temperature charting menstrual cycles or we could see it in terms of uh changes in test results or we could see it in terms of other other medical interventions you know testing that clients were having. So I thought it it was I always say I've got very low boredom threshold and I thought you know actually this is really interesting and even now I find it just as exciting. Uh you know when I'm working with clients and you know maybe they're going through IVF and we're assessing them uh and you think actually do you know that right ovary has got far more follicles in it in than the left. The volume is is greater. I can feel more little tiny bumps sitting in there which are the follicles and then they'll go and have a scan that that afternoon or the next day and it will say uh yeah right ovary has got I don't know 12 follicles and the left ovary has only got five or whatever. So you you know you can then evidence base what you're doing and I I find it yeah completely gripping even now. How so when you started maybe could you give us some insights? How receptive were um physicians or the technicians doing the scans receptive to um you know your your clients working with a reflexologist therapist? like was was there backlash or were you know physicians really open to like oh if reflexology can help you know balance things so that you know the IBS takes you know better or whatever you know the issue is >> so I would say in the early days completely not receptive at all and so um you know I I would when I say this when I'm teaching so if a clinic if a clinician if a gynecologist if a urologist whatever says to the client, I don't want you to have reflexology. I don't like it. I don't want you to have it. Uh, and the client agrees with that. We have to step back even now. However, what I will say in clinical practice, it's only ever happened to me once and the client said, "I'm not giving up my reflexology." And the gynecologist said, "Okay, fair enough. Carry on." But what I would say is, um, so I would say the dialogue has changed. So I've been going to medical conferences probably uh since about oh I don't know 2007 >> and and and now I have the absolute privilege of in very relaxed circumstances because I I uh you know I get taken with a group of gynecologists, scientists, urologists whatever in very relaxed circumstanc ances I I I'm able to have those dialogues with them and so you know I you know I say I'm chair of the association of reproductive reflexologists now some will go oh that's really fascinating I had that when I was a child my mother used to take me and then you you have a very open conversation and others go oh I don't really know much about that and my opening comment is always I cannot explain to you how it works And actually that immediately opens a different dialogue because because one of the things when you're when you're talking with with medics medics that have done 10 12 15 years of training you know when we start off we've usually I mean I I my diploma took me 2 years probably cuz I was being a bit slow but you know you can do a diploma in 12 months and we have to be very mindful of the fact that um medics will quite rightly get upset if we feel that we can influence things in a way that they feel they uh maybe more of a challenge because they're complicated and they have much much more medical knowledge than us. So I think that's the first the first um uh first thing to be aware of when when we're talking with medics. And I think if you go in with that premise then they tend to become much more open. And so I've had the privilege of really in probably the last eight years of having those conversations at medical conferences and to the to the um to the so so and things have progressed enormously. So I'll just give you two examples of how those things have changed. So this I literally have just come back from the British Fertility Society conference in Edinburgh and you will still find that there are lots of medics who just don't want to talk to you. They're very suspicious. It's not that it's not their mindset there and that is absolutely fine. But you also get others who understand it. And if you talk their language, if you talk in a very science-based, evidence evidence-based way, then they are much more open. And so, um, for the last probably, I don't know, three or four years, we have this amazing, um, uh, professor Jonathan Ramsey. He's a very eminent urologist that works with male fertility. And when he opens, they there's usually a big dinner one evening. Um and so so when he opens he talks about working collaboratively to this huge there's 100 you know medics in the room scientist medics in the room and he talks about working collaboratively and he will say we need to include reflexologists and nutrition and urology and gynecology and science and those things need to work together. So I think there is a shift. It is changing and I and I do see that. Um but we still got a long way to go. >> Of course. >> A long way to go. >> So >> I I really liked what you said about um and so so you mentioned, you know, going to these conferences, speaking with um medical professionals and saying you don't know how it works, but clearly you've emphasized the importance of evidence-based. The test results are showing that it's working. they're either showing the shift or they're show right >> um yeah >> so I think that strengthens the argument or strengthens the I guess the dialogue to have with u medical professionals is that >> the test results clearly show >> if that there's a shift or this is happening or you know >> yeah and we need that because >> um you know even if you have a client that gets pregnant that could be very easily dismissed by women it's out in any way or there may have been some other underlying medical you know medical uh intervention uh that that will influence that. Um and so you know if we are able to say this client came in with these parameters the and and they were clearly outside of reference range that doesn't matter whether it's male or female doesn't matter whether it's a semen analysis or sperm DNA fragmentation test or it is um a woman with you know hormonal profiling which is not as it should be. If you can do that and then you are working with that client and then those tests are repeated and you can see the difference or if you have a female client and we've got them charting and we either use basil body temperature charting or we use a piece of medical kit called obusense um and you can it's like watching reflexology in action. I mean, you actually can see and monitor the changes taking place throughout their cycle. And actually, if you are able to demonstrate that, then it's much more difficult to dismiss the pregnancy as a fluke because what you've been doing is um evidence-basing throughout the time that you've been working um with them. So, um yeah. Yeah. Makes it interesting. >> And this is what you're doing your PhD in. I wanted to let everyone who's watching that you're currently studying your PhD and you're >> you've been doing research so you've been tracking all of these test results and the impact reflexology has had on >> so what we've done with that so that is a very complicated thing to do and it's very very difficult so I I'll I'll talk about research and and kind of what I've tried to do is find a way of um of determining the impact that reflexology is having in um not not not in terms of taking because it not in terms of blood test results and taking semen analysis because with that you would have to have a single center either a single center environment to work within which would limit your numbers or multi-enter multi- country hugely costly we would never manage to get that done and we need something that's accessible. So how we've how I've structured it is this we I want to look at what's happening not just physiologically but um holistically. So we know that difficulties conceiving and reproductive health issues have a um psychosocial impact. They impact upon how um we function every single day. our relationships uh with others, our what happens for us at work um etc. So and we know that reflexology is very good at um influencing those things in a very positive way. So um the the the research which I launched last week actually launched we we got our ethical approval through just before Christmas and so it was launched last week. So basically what we are doing is we are using an industry accepted uh online questionnaire called vertical fertility quality of life questionnaire and basically it's a series of multi-choice questions which assess um uh not just physical symptoms but psychosocial symptoms. So the premise is that uh on the first treatment or before they start treatment uh reflexology treatment they complete the online questionnaire and then what we do is they have six treatments and then we repeat it. >> So we've got a before and an after. That's a really good way of determining the impact that reflexology may be having um for them um in a very holistic way. Um and the other thing so so that means we've got a body of data. So um our power calculation which basically means how many pieces of data we need for this to determine um the the the hypothesis that we have put together for the piece of research is 186. So we need to have 186 um participants in that part of the research. Now we did a data collection um in 2013 and we had just 12 of our practitioners participating. We had 183 participants in that. >> Wow. >> Okay. So what we now have we've got a closed Facebook group which has got about just over 300 practitioners in it. So we are hoping that even if all of them just submitted one uh one participant, we would have met that. So I'm I'm honest at the moment saying please join in. Please join in. And and the thing I want to say here is um actually we have ethical approval for the UK, Canada and Australia. And we do have practitioners, active practitioners in Canada. And we really do want them to participate in in the research. is open to them as as well as practitioners. So that's the first part. Let's get a body of data. If we get that many as a number, um it it's going to it's going to uh probably be one of the largest pieces of research that has been undertaken using reflexology. Um just just from a data point of view. And then the other thing that is very current in medicine is is hearing the patient voice. So if you look at medical practice and maybe developing a new drug um you can develop a drug that uh may uh may show efficacy in a certain area but unless you have patient engagement in that um that it it's not going to fulfill its role. So there is a lot more research out there now in terms of how do you feel as a patient taking this? What what would make you take it? what would make you not take it? What benefits do you see? And so uh the patient voice um and in in you know in this particular uh view it would be what will be termed as a qualitative study. So you are um hearing the personal view of that person. So it will be interview based. So I will basically record interviews with probably up to 12 participants to hear their personal experience of you know why they chose reflexology, what they what they perceived the benefits to be, what they perceived any um pitfalls in terms of having treatment difficulties that they've experienced and and then we start to um draw out of that what are called emerging themes. So are there commonalities in that? So that will be the second part of the of the research. Um so hopefully it'll be really robust and comprehensive and it'll be a way of encouraging others to come and do more research in that field cuz that's the thing that we need. Um you know this is just a start. >> Absolutely. We always need one person to kind of set off the you know catalyst um for research and >> just thinking back you know a few years ago not a few years ago let's say 20 years ago someone did that first research on like reflexologyy's impact with people going through cancer and now look at like so many other >> researchers jumped on that. Um so it's amazing that you are starting that initial >> get the good groundwork to hopefully launch other researchers and >> to get interested >> and I think also you know I know that the health system is quite different in Canada but over here in the UK most reflexology is privately funded. you would view it as private healthcare. And you know my view is and actually this um conversation came up at the conference in terms of medicine as well is that um actually there are lots of people who would like to use this as a modality to support them on their journey whether it's reproductive health or or or fertility and and they can't because they can't afford to fund it themselves. So, one of the reasons I really need it to be very robust is so that we can use it to start influencing stakeholders, maybe influencing social prescribing um so that it becomes um more widely available >> to those who would like to use it. >> Absolutely. No, same thing here in Canada. Most of of what we would, you know, deem integrative health, you know, reflexology, massage, acupuncture, it's privately funded. It's not >> publicly available. and cost is always a factor. I I want to bring it back. So, you mentioned um you know the part participating in this research is open to Canadian reflexology therapists who of course are properly trained. So, I kind of want to pivot to your training. >> Um so, you've developed um specific protocols to for working with um both men and women um on a variety of reproductive health um issues. Could you talk a little bit more about why in your opinion you feel it's important to have specialized training when working with these the specific client group? Yes. And someone else asked me this question and and one of the things I will say is this very specific uh group of of of patients clients will be hugely knowledgeable. most of them have by the time they get to see us they already have been on a very long journey and um and they will have done a lot of their own research. Now the difficulty with that is they would have done research. I think that it applies to them and sadly it doesn't always it's very difficult to be objective you know yourself it's it's incredibly difficult to be objective about your own circumstances. So they deserve for us to be um more knowledgeable than they are so that we can ensure that we signpost them for the correct testing if there are things that have been missed. um that we understand what they are undertaking. So, you know, if they if they're trying to conceive naturally, we really need to have a good understanding, a very robust understanding not just of the menstrual cycle, but of reproductive health issues that may influence how they are functioning um from a reproductive health fertility point of view. And that applies to both men and women. So for example, one of the lectures I attended um when I was at the conference was on treating barricals in men. So what we know barricals, little varicus veins in the testes um uh that influence um sperm quality. Now one of the challenges is that most uh general general practitioners, doctors don't understand that. So they you for for men to access that um it can be quite challenging and there are different means of treating uh uh treating uh back seals um for different scenarios and so you know what we may find is that you know the tumor is surgical or what's called emilization where they introduce like little metal coils to to in improve blood flow. Now the the fascinating thing about that is you can see in the reflex points in men whether they have a barrical. Okay. So basically when you look at the testes reflex point quite often they have little blue veins crossing uh across the testes reflex point and you would then ask that question have you self-examined are there little blue veins in the in the testes in the scrotum and send them away. Now we need to have that knowledge so that I'm just give using it as an example so that we can then um uh make sure that we empower our male patients to go back to see their general doctor to say actually um this is a problem. Please can you refer me on to a neurologist because it needs further intervention. And I think we need to have really comprehensive knowledge and understanding of reproductive health and fertility and any forms of assisted conception so that we are able to support our clients in the best way possible. And if we don't have it, we can't do that. These are really complicated cases at times and um and they come to us seeking answers and support and help and it isn't you know managing stress is hugely significant and important but we also need to be very knowledgeable about what to do and when particularly when we're supporting drug protocols. What is that drug trying to to achieve? how can we support it in in um uh so that it works at its optimum. So, I don't know. It's quite a long answer to a short question. I think Laura, >> you're giving us so much great information and I I I I love what you said about being knowledgeable. I think I mean personally I I love learning new things. So I can never learn learn enough and and then I your emphasis on for the reflexology therapist to be able to support your client >> through this journey. You really need to know all of the the options that are out there, what their other doctors or clinicians are talking to them about, how that could impact their body and then how the reflexology could um affect or impact that or respond to that. >> So >> yeah, >> it all works together I think. >> Oh, it does. Right. >> Absolutely. It's I well I always describe this as a patient centered integrative approach. >> Mhm. >> I think yeah >> because reflexology is just part of the process for them. You've got your patient in the center and reflexology is one thing but they may go and have further testing. They may go and have some nutrition. They may have some acupuncture. Uh they may take some supplements. um you know they may go and you know have some further interventions like barrical embleization um and all of those things are about supporting that individual and it makes sure that they get everything that they need. So we kind of need to understand all of those processes and the things that are available to them um so we can make sure they get that really. >> No, I love it. So, you've developed this um you know, a variety of trainings to help support um different uh clients depending on what they're they're going through or seeking. >> Um >> and you're going to be coming to to Winnipeg. You'll be giving us at the conference during your seminar sort of an overview of kind of where, you know, reproductive health reflexology fits in to that. >> Yeah. Um, but you're also going to be doing a two-day pre-conference workshop on use reflexology with menop for menopause. >> Yes. >> And absolutely >> expanding that. And I want to talk about that because menopause, perry menopause has kind of become like a hot topic right now. >> Yeah. >> On >> Yeah. >> Through the zeitgeist social media. Um I guess my generation has become very aware of like this is the change that we're enter into how it could affect us mentally, physically, emotionally. So how do you see I don't know the shift impacting women's healthc care right now? Like what are you seeing the shift in more women, you know, openly talking about it, openly trying to seeking to understand it? >> Um >> yeah. And like where do you see reflexology fitting into that shift? >> Yeah. So I think the first thing is is that there is a dialogue now. It used to be not spoken about. Uh women would never discuss the fact that they were going through their menopause. And when I say menopause I use it as an umbrella term which is permenopause menopause through to postmenopause. And and you know there are different aspects to each of those parts of going through menopause. um with their own challenges and um I think the important thing is that we are now openly speaking about it and actually very interestingly I was in New Zealand in the autumn last year and I was teaching menopause course in uh in Christ Church South Ireland and uh one of the women there her husband was an engineer and he worked in a company and the I think it was the HR manager I may be entirely wrong about this, but the HR manager was finding that his wife was really experiencing challenges going through menopause. And in a very enlightened way, he brought someone in to the company to speak about the challenges that women face going through the menopause. That is so important because it influences what happens in the workplace and our understanding and that then motivates a drive and a need for more research for women who are going through menopause. we've been sadly, you know, discarded. And actually, when we're going through our menopause years is when we have our most wisdom and and and if we support women um you know, I'm just going to talk about the workplace as an example. But if we support women in the workplace when they are going through their menopause, we are not going to lose them and all of the skills that they have developed over, you know, maybe 40 years of working. um the skills and the wisdom and the knowledge they have. We want to maintain that. So we need to have what and and we are starting to see this happening. We need to have um uh workplace policies for women who are going through menopause and that is starting to happen. That is a real joy to see. Um so yeah I I I think that's that's the first thing is that and and we are seeing more more research starting to be undertaken. But when it comes to um working with menopausal women, what we have to remember and certainly um the the way that I teach and the protocols that I use um focuses on women who have you know been through medically induced menopause or menopause that may be temporary because of medical interventions. It may be surgical. Um but also and this is really important is women who are experiencing premature ovarian insufficiency. So there may be menopausing earlier. >> Okay. >> Okay. And what we need to be aware of with those women is that they will be seeking um uh if they haven't completed or started their family they will also be seeking to find ways of preserving their fertility. So we need to be aware um because of that because we've got increasing numbers of women who are menopausing earlier um um and and we've also got increasing numbers of women who are delaying having their families because you know they're better educated. They're going through university. They're climbing the career ladder. So actually the you know the family having a family is delayed and then they find they're in early menopause and and we need to work with them in a very different way when we are working menopausally. So it is really important to support women who are going through menopause but we also need to make sure we include those groups of women as well and the challenges that they they may face. And one of the things I start the teaching with is that the symptoms we associate with menopause are actually usually permenopausal symptoms. They are the ones that we think about every day. They impact upon us. They influence influence us every single day. They feel horrible >> but they are not necessarily lifelimiting. um they may impact upon our everyday life but they don't necessarily limit our life. Once women go into post-menopause, they are more likely to have silent symptoms that are much much more likely to be lifelimiting because they have lost all of the positive benefits of estradile E2 form of estrogen which provides you know protection from against certain cancers and cardiovascular disease etc. um and and including you know how uh how our um urinary health is because that that has a huge impact and a lot of people don't don't recognize that but that is much more likely to um impact upon how how long we're likely to live as women but we might not experience daily symptoms of it. So I always say um the older we get the more of a privilege it is but the the better care we need to take of ourselves really and and so we kind of do discuss that as we as we go through the the course it's really important to understand how important that is. So in in your experience and and opinion do you feel that with this growth of um understanding of the impacts uh per menopause, menopause, postmenopause play and some of the um other things that could happen to to to women. Do you feel that reflexology um can play a bigger role in supporting women going through these stages or is there in your opinion is there a way for reflexology to kind of like be one of the stop gaps or one of the things to be like you know add this to your to your health and well-being routine as you know you progress through these these stages. >> Yes. Because so so if I kind of go backwards. Um so one of the benefits of me not coming to Canada in 2020 was that you know we went into lockdown and we started having discussions about what we could do to support our practitioners who are members of the association whilst we were in that lockdown. And one of the things that we we knew as practitioners that the techniques we were using in reproductive health were actually beneficial to menopausal women. And so I was persuaded to put together a short kind of free to access course for our I mean it literally was just a couple of hours of these are the things you need to think about um for our practitioners and we we provided that to them during the during the first lockdown when we couldn't go anywhere or do anything and then what happened was it started I was thinking actually this is just the tip of the iceberg there needs to be more information here and we need to kind of expand what we're doing and we need to expand our understanding. So it grew and developed from there. So we knew that the the techniques already as an evidence base were influencing menstrual cycles and what we then knew was that they were going to support women um as they went through their menopause. Now you don't want women to stop menopausing. It is a natural part of the the aging process. But what we do want to do is ensure that women go through with the least symptoms >> um as possible. And so actually using the techniques what we find certainly in as women are going into parmenopause and they're um experiencing those kind of daily symptoms that if you can steady the decline. So the decline comes about because ovarian reserve is is declining and the quality of the eggs is declining. And so if you can steady that process so it isn't a sort of drop off a cliff and then it surges again. We want to stop that. What we want to do is just gently steady that. It improves overall symptoms. And so um and and you can evidence base it in the same way. You know you can use medical test but evidence base it in the same way. Um I I don't get time to teach all of that on the menopause course but um what we know is that you can you can do that. Um and so that then means that reflexology does have a very significant role in stabilizing um symptoms. And the other thing just to be aware of is there are a lot of women for whom HRT taking HRT which is still um held as gold standard. It's not suitable for everybody >> and we do so so when I'm teaching I use some medical flowcharts which helps to um help actually helps medics to determine uh um uh treatment pathways but actually is really good for us to understand it because what you can see from that is that you know actually is not suitable for all women to um uh to have HRT. it it won't it doesn't work for some women. Some women don't like the side effects and for some women their risk factors are too high to to take HRT and therefore you can use reflexology as a as a a modality to support as they go through. >> I feel like there's just such a huge potential with reflexology and this population especially as it's so um like you said the dialogue is so is now it's we're talking about it in the workplace. are talking about it, you know, in social media. There's just a huge opportunity. So, I will plug your pre-conference workshop. Um, there's actually only six more spots available. I checked right before we came online cuz we we capped it off at 20. Um, I just checked. So, we only have six more spots available. It's May uh 21st and 22nd um here in Winnipeg at the Canadian Museum for Human Rights. Uh go to reflexologyconference.com if you want tickets. Um because I think we all could benefit a lot from Barbara's experience and expertise in this area. Um and just also >> that's amazing. I'm a bit blown away. That's quite extraordinary. How wonderful. >> Well, as I mentioned, I think it's just we're we're talking about it. Everyone's really aware of it. So then how do we support, you know, more than 50% of the population as >> Exactly. And we have an aging population, you know, we have a >> we honestly I mean it's very important because you know one of the there are some studies that I use when I'm training and we look at the impact upon the workplace and of course you know what happens is we get more aches and pains and if you've got someone doing a very physical job it impacts upon their ability to work effectively. >> Mhm. And so if we can use reflexology to um uh to support them and keep them in work um that's going to have a huge amount of benefits because it impacts upon their yeah their not just their ability to work and earn a living. So financial aspects but also socially, culturally um from a mental health point of view, emotional well-being, all of those things. So um actually I I I think ethology has an enormous role to play in supporting keeping women in the workplace and one of the things that's really important about that in the bigger picture. So one of the things that we were talking about at the fertility conference was that of course we have a falling birth rate. >> Yeah. Um and and we it very basically don't have enough working population to support our pension um our pension age uh uh population. So the longer we can keep women working um in good health the the more it is going to support um you know to support what's happening in terms of social structure etc. So it's really important. No, that's a great point. And what's always good like these things don't happen in a vacuum. And one of the things Barbara I really appreciate of the way you teach is looking at not just we're not just learning a a protocol. We're not just learning you know what um you know stimulating this specific reflex point might do on the client is looking at their emotional um their mental their their physical well-being and looking um I know the buzz word here in Canada is whole person care. Um but looking at Yeah, that's the buzz word. Um but I really appreciate your teaching to that. Um looking at someone as a whole person like it's not they're not just coming for one issue but this one issue is impacted by all these other factors. >> Yeah. Do you know there was a so this I I saw this a few years ago. There was a man speaking on the the national uh BBC news and um basically his wife was going through um was going through the menopause and her her mental health had suffered to such a degree that she he he didn't know that she had kept it to herself and very sadly she took her own life >> and so he was speaking very publicly and saying I didn't know that I didn't understand anything about the menopause. I didn't understand the symptoms she was experiencing and I wish I had and I want to make sure that that everybody else knows about it. And I think that is why the dialogue needs to change and and is changing because we need to understand um we need to understand when it is appropriate for women who are going through menopause because you know we know that it has a horrible mental and emotional impact um on us as we're going I mean some women it is it is like teenage years in reverse but it's heightened because um we have huge responsibilities at that point in our lives as well. So yeah, really important. It's really important to understand that. I hope someone whoever's listening was encouraged by that that if you if you know this is the client area that you're wanting to specialize in or if you are on the fence about taking additional training um to support um clients um either through their fertility journeys but through menopause that this is the type of impact that could have um we no one I never want anyone to suffer in silence. So you can play >> a role in supporting someone through that. >> Absolutely. And one of the other things we know about our treatment sessions is that they get to talk. We get to listen. We and we and we and it may just be that they just need to speak. I know there is this you know we like them to kind of rest and relax and go off and have a I always say it's very meditative but you quite often will find that I certainly with my own clients that in this particular field they will talk all the way through and I see that as part of the therapeutic process >> it is a time when they can just say whatever um feels however things feel for them and actually I think that's part of the part of the process for Yeah, >> thanks. >> So, it's useful. >> All right. Well, we have just a few more minutes left, so I'm going to just check to see if anyone has any questions or comments. Um, oh, I see one question. Do I see a question? Going to refresh. If anyone does, please feel free to put it in the comment section under the live. Um, I guess then my last question to you, Barbara, is kind of just what are you looking forward to for coming to Canada? Like it's been almost uh 10 years >> since you're last here. Anything you're looking forward to or things you want to experience >> or say to our our therapists here? >> Well, do you know I'm just looking forward to coming and meeting all the Canadian practitioners. I just I think it's going to be a wonderful conference. You've got amazing speakers. I'm really looking forward to listening to them as well. And I just think if we come together as a community and share um and interact with each other, we all learn from each other. I think you've got an amazing venue. I've already said that. Um and and I and as I say, I have, you know, I have been to um I've been to Winnipeg before and it's really beautiful. Um, so I am very much looking forward to to that aspect or I'm just looking forward to coming and being with everyone. I think conferences are fantastic way of sharing information. And I don't I think it always is better in person. You know, I do lots of online stuff, but you know, as I say, I've just come back from this conference in Edinburgh and you have conversations that you would never have online. It is always better to be there in person. So yeah, I'm just coming. I'm looking forward to coming and meeting you all in person and being with you and experiencing the whole conference experience. So yeah, it's been lovely. >> Well, I am very excited to finally get to meet you in person. Uh we've been chatting and speaking and emailing each other for over six years and so it'll be great to finally be in the same physical space. >> Um I will tell everyone watching, you know, we understand Canada is a huge country. We're really big. Um, so not everyone can physically travel to Winnipeg. So there is a virtual component of the conference. So if you're not able to travel, you can get connected and through the the live streams and still chat with online participants and ask questions. So if that's um not able to necessarily travel to Winnipeg, you can still join us. Go to reflexologyconference.com um for all the information. Barbara's going to be speaking on Sunday, uh, May 24th, um, doing a seminar about her research and and putting reflexology in perspective in the context of reproductive health and and the research she's doing, as well as doing a two-day pre-conference workshop on um, reflexology and menopause, which, as I mentioned earlier, only has six tickets left as of January 14th, 2026. So, if you want to get access to that training, go and register now. Um, I'm checking one more time if there's any comments, but if there's not, don't see any. I just want to thank you, Barbara, for taking the time out of I know you have a very full teaching schedule as well as all of your other uh responsibilities and your research. So, I really appreciate you taking the time to share just all of your insights about this. Um, it's very specific, but I think it's good that you you've narrowed in on this niche of reproductive health and fertility. Um, and that you have managed to connect it to evidence-based so that it it connects to test that we can actually see the impacts reflexology is having on medical tests. So, thank you so much for all of your uh contribution to the reflexology field and looking so forward to um meeting you in person, hearing you present all of this in person. >> Well, it's honestly I feel privileged to be asked. I feel privileged to do the work that I do and it is terribly exciting and then to be able to share that with others is is a real honor. So, thank you for asking me and um I'm really looking forward to meeting you in person. It's going to be wonderful. >> It will. Well, thank you everyone and join us next week uh same day, same time as we speak to another one of our our conference speakers. Have a great day. >> All right.